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I was riding my commuter mule (1985 Peugeot Orient Express) home the other night and while navigating a corner I noticed that something wasn’t quite right. I was trying to turn left and the bike did not really want to cooperate. I immediately thought that I had a flat but did not feel the road noise that accompanies a flat. Then I noticed that as I pedaled there was an eerie metallic tapping kind of sound - especially when I pedaled hard.
I cut my speed in half and looked around a bit but nothing really stood out. Did I mention that it was dark, I was fighting a terrible headwind, and with the windchill is was about 10 degrees? I was still maintaining forward progress, I was on a flat bike path, and I was about two miles from home so I just kept on pedaling.
After getting home it did not take me too long to figure out what was up. Turns out the frame cracked at the joint near where the chainstay meets the seatstay (see the arrow below). It’s a clean break as the second photo with the screwdriver shows.
This is the first broken frame I have experienced and I would love to keep the bike. I have zero experience with welding but the frame is steel so it seems like it could be fixed. Thus I am asking for input from all you out there:
Have you had a broken frame and fixed it?
What kind of weld is the best?
Is this a normal place for a break to happen?
Is this a bad place to think about welding?
I could care less how the bike looks - I’ve tried to ugly it up as much as possible in the past. The only thing I care about is that it is safe to ride. Please chime in with your advice in comments. And if you know anyone in NYC who might be able to help or offer advice, let me know that too.
When I was in boy scouts, and working on earning the cycling merit badge, my dad bought me a bike that was made of steel. He bought it at a pawn shop for ten bucks, and it looked pretty bad. But it was nearly thirty years ago, and I knew nothing of bike technology, so I went with it. I can’t remember all of the requirements, but as I recall, we had to ride a total of 300 miles over the course of the class, which maybe lasted six to eight weeks. We had completed just about all the miles, and were two or three miles from our destination on the last group ride. For some reason we had stopped, and when I climbed back on and gave it a downstroke, the frame broke, where the downtube meets the crank. They credited me the last two miles, and I earned the badge (don’t tell the Boy Scout people–I wouldn’t want to be stripped of it now).
When we got home, my dad pulled out his trusty welder, and put it back together for me. I don’t remember if I ever rode it after that, but it was a pretty darn good looking piece of welding.
I’d at least give it a try. It’s a little rough being that close to the dropout. If it were somewhere else I might try to form a piece of reinforcing steel and braze that over the whole injury area, but I don’t know if that would be possible there.
Still, if the alternative is to throw it away, I’d give it a try.
If you’ve never welded before though, you don’t want to make this your first attempt. Find someone to do it. The steel on the chainstay is probably relatively thin and a beginner will probably just blow right through it and make the problem worse.
Weld the hell out of it, front and back, with a nice beefy bead. That area takes a ton of strain, and as you can see, there are little “inserts” that slip into the chainstays to help reinforce that area (the insert broke off, too).
Grind some of the back weld down to make sure you’ve got clearance for the smallest cog, and also make sure the dropouts are aligned after heating or you’ll have poor handling and shifting.
A bike like that probably doesn’t have thin tubing, but I’d still bring it to a welding pro rather than some hack with a garage arc-welder.
This happened to my best friend in the same spot. He brought it to a modest pro and they brazed it for a reasonable fee. I would strongly advise against welding this with a garage MIG welder and amateur skills.
Even if it fails again, it is not a high risk location like the front fork or down tube. Weld it and ride it until you have saved enough money for a new bike. Then dispose the frame into the recycling bin.
Agree with others that this is asking for a pro job. Once done, don’t worry too much - if done properly, the weld will be stronger than the metal it bonds to, and the joint will most likely be stronger than it was new.
I would suggest yellowjersey.org. They are a very well regarded bike shop in Madison, Wisconsin.
Here is a link to their frame repair page. http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
That junction is brazed and is (should be) easily repairable either by a professional, or even by yourself - with a little researching on brazing techniques. I found brazing to be easier, more forgiving and much less expensive than welding, and it’s how the frame was put together at the factory. The first time I ever tried brazing, I swapped vertical dropouts for horizontal ones in my frame, and it’s still holding together two years later. If I were to weld anything, it would be the part of the dropout that broke off back onto the dropout itself, once the little broken piece was extracted from the frame after heating with a torch.
Then rebraze it all back together. That’s my 2 cents.
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11 comments for this entry ↓
1 jasonk // Jan 12, 2009 at 4:28 am
When I was in boy scouts, and working on earning the cycling merit badge, my dad bought me a bike that was made of steel. He bought it at a pawn shop for ten bucks, and it looked pretty bad. But it was nearly thirty years ago, and I knew nothing of bike technology, so I went with it. I can’t remember all of the requirements, but as I recall, we had to ride a total of 300 miles over the course of the class, which maybe lasted six to eight weeks. We had completed just about all the miles, and were two or three miles from our destination on the last group ride. For some reason we had stopped, and when I climbed back on and gave it a downstroke, the frame broke, where the downtube meets the crank. They credited me the last two miles, and I earned the badge (don’t tell the Boy Scout people–I wouldn’t want to be stripped of it now).
When we got home, my dad pulled out his trusty welder, and put it back together for me. I don’t remember if I ever rode it after that, but it was a pretty darn good looking piece of welding.
2 jrr // Jan 12, 2009 at 5:26 am
I’d at least give it a try. It’s a little rough being that close to the dropout. If it were somewhere else I might try to form a piece of reinforcing steel and braze that over the whole injury area, but I don’t know if that would be possible there.
Still, if the alternative is to throw it away, I’d give it a try.
If you’ve never welded before though, you don’t want to make this your first attempt. Find someone to do it. The steel on the chainstay is probably relatively thin and a beginner will probably just blow right through it and make the problem worse.
3 Ghost Rider // Jan 12, 2009 at 6:22 am
Weld the hell out of it, front and back, with a nice beefy bead. That area takes a ton of strain, and as you can see, there are little “inserts” that slip into the chainstays to help reinforce that area (the insert broke off, too).
Grind some of the back weld down to make sure you’ve got clearance for the smallest cog, and also make sure the dropouts are aligned after heating or you’ll have poor handling and shifting.
A bike like that probably doesn’t have thin tubing, but I’d still bring it to a welding pro rather than some hack with a garage arc-welder.
4 Ninjineer // Jan 12, 2009 at 8:31 am
This happened to my best friend in the same spot. He brought it to a modest pro and they brazed it for a reasonable fee. I would strongly advise against welding this with a garage MIG welder and amateur skills.
5 TP // Jan 12, 2009 at 8:55 am
Even if it fails again, it is not a high risk location like the front fork or down tube. Weld it and ride it until you have saved enough money for a new bike. Then dispose the frame into the recycling bin.
6 Tom // Jan 12, 2009 at 11:07 am
The beauty of steel is that it’s repairable much more so than other metals.
Weld or braze, have a certified welder do it, the weld will be more structurally sound than if an amateur were to do it.
7 Darren // Jan 12, 2009 at 11:45 am
Agree with others that this is asking for a pro job. Once done, don’t worry too much - if done properly, the weld will be stronger than the metal it bonds to, and the joint will most likely be stronger than it was new.
8 Kee // Jan 12, 2009 at 10:14 pm
I would suggest yellowjersey.org. They are a very well regarded bike shop in Madison, Wisconsin.
Here is a link to their frame repair page.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
9 Rob // Jan 13, 2009 at 11:44 am
That junction is brazed and is (should be) easily repairable either by a professional, or even by yourself - with a little researching on brazing techniques. I found brazing to be easier, more forgiving and much less expensive than welding, and it’s how the frame was put together at the factory. The first time I ever tried brazing, I swapped vertical dropouts for horizontal ones in my frame, and it’s still holding together two years later. If I were to weld anything, it would be the part of the dropout that broke off back onto the dropout itself, once the little broken piece was extracted from the frame after heating with a torch.
Then rebraze it all back together. That’s my 2 cents.
Rob G. in AK
10 jim g // Jan 13, 2009 at 1:24 pm
You don’t want to WELD anything here. That dropout is BRAZED into the chain and seat stays — you need to have the dropout replaced. See http://flickr.com/photos/duncancycles/sets/72157611979285051/ for photos of a similar replacement/repair.
11 jake // Jan 20, 2009 at 7:35 pm
i build steel bikes and its a easy fix also u dont need much experience to weld that part of the bike just dont worp the chain stays and ull be fine
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